Add Tibetan segmented texts from 84000 to Bilara

[ayya-vimala]

Here is a repository with some of the Tibetan segmented texts. I don't know where they belong and what they need to be called in the SC structure or if more are needed. If more are needed, let me know.
https://github.com/ayya-vimala/tibetan-bilara-files

[agilgur5]

The CC BY-NC-ND 3.0 licensing would make them incompatible with Bilara's CC0 requirement, so they'd only be hostable as legacy texts, as far as I understand.

[ayya-vimala]

There is no copyright on the Tibetan texts, only on their translations. You cannot copyright ancient texts like that.

[agilgur5]

Oh right, of course, they're public domain after all.
I saw a license and didn't even think about the fact that it's a root text rather than a translation. Thank you for correcting me 🙏

But given there is a license despite the public domain nature, the derived pieces are potentially copyrightable. Like the segmentation work could be copyrightable, although at the same time, if it's to an ancient numbering system, then that would likely also be public domain. Copyright is complicated 😕

[agilgur5]

Like the segmentation work could be copyrightable

Oh I think I understand now. The 84000 files are in plaintext with line numbers, and then you converted that to Bilara JSON and legacy HTML. Different definitions of "aligned" (I think?)

I would think that organizing them into lined plaintext files is not a copyrightable derivation, although, in the US at least, the Oracle v. Google decision on Android Java APIs essentially ruled that "filing cabinet" organization is copyrightable 😕 (and later that copying it falls within fair use). (That being said, that wasn't a derivation, but a larger body of work (Java) where the organization was one piece of copyrightable work.)

at the same time, if it's to an ancient numbering system, then that would likely also be public domain.

So it would hinge on the organizational structure/numbering system. I wanna say it's public domain, but I don't have enough familiarity to know.
Arguably you've also completely reorganized it now too, so whether the original organization is copyrightable is perhaps irrelevant anyway. 🤔

[ayya-vimala]

I think right now a bigger obstacle for merging it into Bilara is that I have no feedback on which texts and where they have to go in the menu structure. I made this repo already 2 years ago, and that question rests with Bhante.

[agilgur5]

Oh. I didn't realize something was missing.

I was hoping to tackle some more straightforward work that doesn't require a high degree of knowledge of the root/translation language (a lot of the tasks in this repo seem to require some fluency with languages I unfortunately don't know). Since you had done a lot of the work on this one, it seemed like a good candidate. I'll admit though, I wasn't sure why you hadn't completed it yourself 😅

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge in this area, a few follow-up questions for my own edification, if you don't mind:

where they have to go in the menu structure

Is this substantially different from the existing structures of the Pali or the Chinese (like the Sab structure you had in suttacentral/bilara-data#4996) ?

merging it into Bilara

Are the legacy texts in the repo more ready? Or also still need feedback from Bhante Sujato?

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help then, apologies if I stepped on any toes, was just looking for some simpler tasks in this repo that I could tackle in between the work I'm doing in the main site repo 🙏

[ayya-vimala]

Is this substantially different from the existing structures of the Pali or the Chinese (like the Sab structure you had in suttacentral/bilara-data#4996) ?

The Mulasarvastivada Vinaya and suttas follow a different structure from the Pali and I'm not sure which ones Bhante wants or doesn't want and how he wants to structure this inside SC. I could find out a little more about which onces are actually early, but I would feel unsure about proceeding without Bhante's explicit approval. We had a discussion on D&D some years ago where it was left off. I will send you an invite to the PM.

[agilgur5]

Thanks for adding me to the PM thread! I see some of my questions on licensing and AI usage were already covered years ago there too - that context is very helpful 🙏

but I would feel unsure about proceeding without Bhante's explicit approval

I "liked" some of Bhante's comments in the thread last month as a small nudge / notification 😅
He seems to be more active on the forum recently and there was a post about the Mulasaravastivada Vinaya too, so I sent a small follow-up note in the PM thread. Hopefully that helps move things forward a bit! 🙂

The Mulasarvastivada Vinaya and suttas follow a different structure from the Pali

Ohhh, that makes a lot more sense now. I didn't think about that case, but that makes sense that a different tradition, especially early parts of it, could have a different structure. Thank you for educating me on the topic!